(sorry still trying to figure out how User Talk works on here, hopefully you get this)

Yes there are people interest in the recently added undead races/pages, there is literally a big undead uprising thing going on right now. who is this "we" you are refereing to? I see absolutley no problem in defining an archetype that people have been actively complaining had no definition for the entirety of the sport's existence. there's alot of undead out here, we just had no representation on the wiki, and because of that we have basically just remained a silent majority. a few months ago me and some of the other vetran undead decided to work together to change that, we are as we speak discussing with the undead population cultural concepts and the like. we're defining the undead in the same vein that the core races got to define the term monster. I understand the confusion in that much of the pages are left with minimal information, but rome wasn't built in a day. -Dark12794 17:01, 30 January 2017

Heyy Galya, I don't know how this works either! You asked if the major difference between Bollywogs and Frog-Folk was that we don't paint up anymore. Most of us have shifted to just doing the face dots most of the time (a couple of people have expressed interest in doing the whole shebang, which, more power to em) but the name change was just because 'Bollywog' is kind of an old-timey slur for middle-eastern/south-asian people, which we didn't know when we named the race. -Khnor (October 18, 2022)

I appreciate the insight! I would suggest adding the signifiers description back onto the Frog-Folk page, just so people know what to look for. Galya (talk) 18:00, 18 October 2022 (CDT)Reply

Hi gayla currently wondering why my Water Goblyn page isn't actually properly listed on any of the Goblyns pages. I heard you were giving my editor trouble and frankly I'm a little shocked, but would appreciate if you could please categorize my stuff properly thanks

Hi Gayla I'm a tiefling and outsider any particular reason for the passive aggressive/wildly inaccurate "disclaimer" on a race page that doesn't belong to you?

Cause you kinda just screwed up all of our races and now we can't even reedit the actual page to get rid of your childish disclaimer trying to downplay our races. We don't need to get your approval to add to our own lore, idk where you get off thinking you get to overstep your boundaries just because you're the Admin but if you don't fix it now we will be taking this to the war council that you be replaced with someone of more professional quailty.

You seem to have a pattern of making baseless accusations and decisions for races you aren't a part of SOULY based on a lack of information based on your needlessly hostile encounters with the Deathrisen the Frog-Folk and even the new Water Goblyns and as someone who's been working alongside some of those races to unify our lore I do not appreciate it. Infact I think it's an incrediblly bad look for a Witchdoctor of such high regard.

I ask that you please reconsider your actions before this goes too far.

re:Water Goblyn page

Hey there. So I did have Water Goblyns linked on the Goblyn Tribes page, but I had it categorized as an "unnamed" tribe, rather than a subtype, because at the time, there wasn't enough distinguishing characteristics to really fit as a subtype. There definitely is now though, so I moved it on both pages.

re:Outsiders page

Good evening. I can explain my reasoning for the disclaimer and locking the page, yes, especially since I haven't been given a chance to provide my perspective before this point. I do find it interesting that you consider my brief conversation with a Frog-Folk "hostile", as that was not at all my intention, and I never received feedback from them, stating they felt as such. But, tone can be difficult to interpret over text, so I understand how that might be misconstrued.

For context, I was recently called a "desk monkey", and I supposed that's somewhat true, although I prefer the term archivist. My role on the wiki is to preserve and to keep things as accurate and organized as I can, for the benefit of newcomers. I've been doing this for over a decade, and have rarely had any kind of issues.

I believe this started when I noticed the Category:Elves page had been substantially edited, by someone I knew was not an elf. The elves had a rewrite in 2018, which I advised on, so I'm familiar with the outcome. I removed the edit because it was old lore that did not fit with the current "Elven Coalition" concept. That lore is still on a different page, and I have no opinion on it, but it is not the sole definition of elves within Bel, so it doesn't make sense to put it on the main category. At the time, I was not aware of the fact that the editor was posting on behalf of other elves, but the point still stands. Also, there have been issues in the past with inaccurate or entirely plagiarized lore being pasted onto a racial page by someone who wasn't familiar with our culture, and initially, I thought it might be one of those situations.

Later, as mentioned above, I'd read the Water Goblyn page and discussed it with another Goblyn who agreed it was really only a tribe, based on what had been posted at the time. I created the Goblyn Tribes page to help provide clarity on the differences between a subtype and a tribe, as they have always been socially understood, but never formally written down. I believe I also noticed the comment on the Outsiders page regarding "a good portion of evil-aligned deities within the Monster pantheon", and was not a fan, but I chose to ignore it at that point. It felt like another example of someone making assumptions about other races without full knowledge.

The final incident was when the water goblyn page was added to both the Goblyn and Goblyn Tribe pages under subtype, which I already mentioned it didn't fit under at the time. This, to me, was the 3rd example of the same individual making ill-informed edits in places they didn't belong. I admit that I got a bit heated, given that I am a very old Goblyn and I care a great deal about the preservation of our lore. I locked the pages to protect them, and decided to add a disclaimer to the Outsiders page because it seemed to me that this person does not respect the work of others, and would likely attempt to push the concept of the planes onto everything and everyone he encounters. So, I wanted to warn any new people that the strict adherence to that concept was entirely optional, and that a decent portion of races do not ascribe to it. I was also aware that a friend of mine had intentionally created an entirely separate type of Tiefling, specifically due to disagreements with this individual, so I felt the decision was justified.

Upon later reflection, I agree that the disclaimer is harsher than intended, but I have tried to reach a compromise with this person, only to be told that my concerns were invalid and non-existent. I merely asked that if gods or races were to be named, they would be named specifically, and not as a broad generalization of a "good portion" of monster gods being of the Abyssal or Celestial Plane. The barbaric monsters already struggle with newcomers making assumptions about us based on popular media, and I'd like to avoid further confusion.

With that in mind, I'd like to revisit the compromise I offered before. As a gesture of good faith, I have removed the 2nd line of the disclaimer, which is arguably the more offensive part. I will remove the rest and unlock the page, if you can promise to avoid generalizations in future edits, and only list specific gods or races by name. Please consider that I am a volunteer, merely asking to be heard, and I will gladly relent if I can receive a modicum of respect, and an understanding of my perspective on this issue. I acknowledge that I acted rashly, but the way I was treated in response did nothing to foster good will. I hope we can come to a compromise which satisfies both parties.

Hi Gayla, thanks for the response on the issue with the outsider page. Not really sure which other tieflings you're talking about as the only 4 that we have are all on good terms and there don't seem to be others listed. But either way he is the guy who wrote the lore and he is the person working with the Void Trolls Water Goblyns and us to define the concept of the after life and the underworld alittle more. Much of it was only written under a generalized manner because we honestly kinda assumed listing Tieflings Lemures and Demons was kind of enough to establish it as gods only related to those planes.

That being said, he's been in contact with all of us along side quite a few of the other races popping up trying to connect themselves and their lore to the larger Void concept. Most of the stuff written there was intended to be placeholders to be expanded on in the coming weeks, which is why the release of the Hat Troll page and the Water Goblyn page coming up around the same time. We all kind of wanted to release it slowly so it didn't feel like we were just making decisions all at once. But I can assure you that we have been working to make as many faithful connections to the greater lore as possible.

Re:Gayla

apparently the "issues with another tiefling" was that they didn't like/want to follow or collaborate with me on lore during its begining stages. This was no more than a 2 sentence interaction where they asked how to be a tiefling and i showed them the little bit of lore which was intended to be expanded on. They said "I'll check it out" never got back to me made the Blood Moon Tiefling Tribe and we left it at that. And I have no issue with that whatsoever as they are a tribe, and tieflings are intentionally written so they can have lore like the Blood Moon Tribe that branches off as Goblyns eventually did. and as you can see all that is stuff we're expanding on really soon. My problem is that if this whole thing was started on the precedence of "preestablished lore" why am I being punished for expanding my own creations that are directly tied to my current collaborative efforts you've seen above? I understand they're your friend but it really just kind of feels like your personal feelings over the matter are getting in the way of the fairness/reality of the situation. If the Blood Moons do not wish to collaborate on lore or be held down by the lore of the race (Their words not mine) being established by its creator first member they have every right to. But that shouldn't mean they take precedence over the way we're writing the race because that's not what either myself OR Nasha want. It's unfair to every other Tiefling/lore writer putting in the work right now. Especially if the whole reason I was threatened to be banned was because you believed I didn't understand or wish to adhere to the greater Monster lore. The reality is we came first and we never left and the fact I was just told by her that I was the one coming in and making rules and changes to her lore because this whole thing forced my hand into actively seeking approval from Nasha and inform her that because if your personal relationship with her whatever lore we were writing was being invalidated in spite of the fact that we wrote it first. And I find very unfair of you to throw her under the bus like that because according to her she never really "had any issues with me pesonally" she just asked for your help because you're her friend and she trusted you to help her set it up so that this exact situation WOULDN'T be a problem.

I empathize. But we came first. Your friend does not take priority. I am 100% willing to work with/collaborate and help them but I do not appreciate the implication that I was "the only one who used or wrote the outsider lore" when you very specifically KNOW that you wrote a Tiefling lore AFTER mine, changed it and are now trying to dictate the lore around it (the void/outsider lore) especially after accusing me of having a tendency to make bold decisions for races I'm not part while not adhering to prewritten lore when you yourself have done it(the Blood Moon Tieflings suddenly taking Priority over every outsider on Geddon)

I appreciate that you removed the passive aggressive/inaccurate disclaimer and the lock on the page. But please try to understand that this isn't just random changes being made. And taking Priority over your friends lore (that doesn't follows tiefling lore) cannot take priority over the other races that do when most of them have at least 5 Members and a couple that are supposed to be tied into that lore itself having 20+. That decision effects more than your friend

As I said before I hope we can move past this issue and find a compromise that will result in us not having opposing goals. Thank you for your patience and we'll be sure to be more specific when establishing lore - Jak